Ep 577: The Spec Home Land Investor With Dan Haberkost

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hello welcome to the hive with us podcast I'm your host Daniel
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Martinez today we have a special guest he's another land investor we know we
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love land investors but his name is Dan habc what part of the country you from Dan originally from Ohio I live in San
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Diego now but lived in Colorado for years after college and moved out here this year I did not know you were in San
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Diego I did not know we should get lunch because I live like an hour from San Diego oh where where at I live by Tula
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oh sure okay I just went up to Big Bear for Labor Day weekend so I probably drove right by you absolutely you did
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you did I don't know you're this close this is this is what we do on the podcast we find out these things then we
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work it out yeah we can definitely get some I I go to San Diego like once a month do you know Steve Anderson by
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chance no I don't think so so Steve Anderson he runs a Meetup in San Diego
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that I attend once a month it's like the first or second Thursday of the month
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but I go to his meet up that's the only time I go to San Diego and I I don't go to La either so it's
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just you know don't blame me on not going to La you know how it is like you
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only you only need to drive when whenever you need to drive and that's it yeah yeah absolutely so let's talk about
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little bit about land how long you've been doing real estate and how long you've been doing land because sometimes that's Ty for anwers a lot of people
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yeah yeah I started buying rentals slowly in 2018 my last year of college uh just via house hack I was trying to
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do a house hacker two every year quickly realize the low and no money down thing isn't really applicable to buy and hold
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real estate Beyond a couple small properties and so I figured out I need to make money more than just a middle-
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class job because that's what I had at the time and So speaking of meetups I was living in Colorado at the time and I
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went to a Meetup in Colorado Springs and I met a guy who had been doing land and development for the last 45 50 years you
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know longer than i' been alive and I'd go down to peblo Colorado every weekend and I'd help him in his business I'd
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help just any way I could to learn from him and he was doing Simple infill new construction and so he started teaching
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me how to do that I would help him finding real you know people to buy his his houses and eventually to find the
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land to do the builds and so we started doing some projects together I learned the simple infill new construction but
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more than anything I learned how to go direct a seller for land uh so that ultimately started in 2019 and that's
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when I started Front Range land and so now Front Range land is the active land business that has been the way of
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scaling my income to buy more and more rental properties over these last you know six years
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gotcha so you're straight out of college so you're probably 28 29 yeah 28 now
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yeah well congratulations I wish like it's always when I was younger I wish I would have
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found this sure sure yeah it's good I think I found L when I was 26 myself so
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I've been still pretty young I've been doing it for six years so it's been a very interesting Journey but it's opened
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my eyes to a lot of other it gave me perspective I think it's a lot of people don't have because land is a different
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asset class and a lot of people don't understand it in a lot of different ways and a lot of people can't wrap their
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head around it yeah yeah so coming from houses to
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land uh what was that transition like for you as far like a big learning curve
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or was it I mean I you had that little intermediate intermediate time of learning from how to do info Lots so I
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kind of helped out a little bit but yeah you know in hindsight I think I got very
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lucky you know speaking of why I wish I knew what I knew now when I first started mailing it was in Pueblo West
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Colorado I could send a hundred mailers and get a deal at 30 to 50 cents on the dollar and I didn't know what I had then
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because I had no point of reference and came from a pretty scarce background so
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I didn't really understand the difference between spending money and investing money and so I didn't know what I had and so I flipped almost the
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first 100 Lots were all just infield flips I did that in PUO West along with a few new construction projects at a
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time and you know kept buying rental properties and that was going great and then in early TW right at the beginning of 2022 with no warning the Metro
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District which is what the governing body for p they just shut off all new water taps because as anyone out west
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can say you know water is a scarce thing and so no warning sorry we're running
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out of water taps we haven't managed this right uh we'll let you know and so in one moment I thought my business was
Learning Land Development and New Construction.)
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was screwed at least as far as the landside of things and I had a lot of cash in lots and projects in process
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well over the course of the next eight weeks it came to light that they were opening up the water taps at a much
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higher price and only with a small amount allocated every year but the Lots weren't worthless but that was the
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impetus like I got to expand so immediately started Marketing in Florida flipped a lot more infill Lots there and
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so in several hundred deals a lot of it has been just simple infill Lots but
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more recently in the last you know year or two buying larger acreage you know we got 35 acres under contract in Florida
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Pro bigger bigger pieces like that but that's a big deal for Florida 35 acres in Florida is a big deal yeah that's an
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interesting one it's got got a dilapidated shed a dilapidated it's it's got a bunch of crap on it we're working
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on getting cleaned up as efficiently as we can but yeah it's in an area where there aren't a ton of parcels that big
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uh so that's a promising one but to answer your question more specifically it was a slow and steady transition uh
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and it was kind of forced where that market really died uh at least for just
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simple buying and selling a land after the water tap thing and so I had to expand and then it has gotten more
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competitive it's not comp competitive like other real estate assets but you know just buying an infill lot at 40 cents on the dollar isn't quite as easy
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it used to be and then I'm continually doing new construction I'll say I am excited again about new construction because Lumber has come down so I have a
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new contractor and this is still in Colorado and PUO West that I tested out with just a simple duplex build they're
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just finishing it they're right within budget I'm just keeping this one great we got it done in about four four and a
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half months we'll see when we actually get the CO but going to do a number of infill spec builds going into next year as well because that's just a simple
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system so anyways I'll pause there no I I like I said we I've never built anything from ground up most we've done
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is uh we're doing some roads on some stuff and we thrown in some mobile homes but I've never done anything ground up
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100% so it's new new new stuff for me so I think having the right contractor
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makes that a lot easier that's that is everything the
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whole game you know you you have the wrong contractor you're in the wrong deal yes
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could B the deal right and everything and it blows up yeah and and finding a contractor who wants to work with an
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investor because you talk to a lot of contractors and they'll just give you the mom and pop price that's as high as
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they can possibly market up you got to find the contractor that's okay with okay it's G to be and you have to make
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good on this but all right I'm just going to build you this commoditized product as an investor I don't have to deal with any that comes with
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that would come with you know building a dream home for an end user and I'll just charge you you know X fee and so for
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this duplex it's a fatherdaughter contractor team they Char charged me a $50,000 fee and I got it done well below
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appraised value and they were happy though because they're not dealing with clients they just send them the draws I
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just double check their numbers and everything are where they're supposed to be and so it's much easier for them and not every contractor wants to do it do
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that so you've got to find the ones that are happy to build for investors with an arrangement like that that's good I
Scaling Bigger Land Deals and Subdivisions.)
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think uh I don't like dealing with contractors or they can be a pain but I
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mean I think if you found the right one like I said hopefully don't get too complacent you can do a lot of business
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with them and keep it going yeah I think you get a little steam roller going and people get a little
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antsy yeah yeah I can tell you in 2021 I had to bail a contractor out of jail so
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I learned about the bail system that that year didn't know anything about that it's the the real estate business
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has so many uh you learn a lot about a lot of different things when you deal with different situations and different
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transactions one of my first deals never bought any real estate nothing at all I
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bought a property that had a squatter in it that was family and they didn't want to deal with it so I had to evict the family member from their squatter house
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and that was very interesting I sound like a I wasn't the landlord but had them sign a landlord Arrangement so I
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didn't want to who are you like yeah yeah fun fun you got to deal with fun
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stuff throughout throughout the journey and then um the deal I had in Florida they were on the property and they
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wanted time to sit on the property so we agreed on the price agreed on a hold back and they like we gave them some
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money up front to like start the move and then we're g give the rest whenever they left and like you're you're stealing from us you're you're doing
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fraud I'm like just do your side of the agreement I'll pay you and yeah we ended
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up have we told him like I'll give you an EXT for $10,000 just to leave based on the original agreement like
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okay and they left they left me they left me a burnout RV on that property oh
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boy wow so you deal with a lot of different uh curb balls in this business and it's it's it's fun it's
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fun can be well I think that example and
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and some of the ones I I could tell you important lesson is you got to put aside your ego and put aside
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what you think is right in any given situation what's the best way to just get this freaking transaction done like
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what you just said of course it sounds like you were in the right they weren't doing what they said they would but the
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consequence of or the pain in the ass to show that or go through the it's not worth it it was easier just to give them
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10 grand and walk away and that's a lesson I think every business owner has to learn where you got to put aside even
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if you feel Justified how do I just get this done and move on so it doesn't end up going to court or taking just huge
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amounts of time and effort absolutely that's always the biggest thing is it worth to squeeze um so tell me a little
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little about your your bigger land deals that you're working and what was the thought process to get into bigger
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land yeah so I have done to to be clear I I try to be transparent I have not
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done any like making half a million dollars doing a subdivi anything that size yet working on it but I've done
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hundreds of the land flips that are the 10 to 30 with some outliers some bigger
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outliers on both sides so uh working on acreage in Florida we can get bigger spreads like that third that 35 Acres
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should be able to sell that in the low 200s we have it under contract at 135 if we do spend a little money to clean it
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should be able to sell it in the high 200s so what we're yeah big bigger
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bigger uh acreage is is one of the main ways we're working to get bigger spreads right now and then we're really trying
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to get uh Parcels in eastern Colorado El Paso County if you're at all familiar with that there's all these people that
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are moving East outside of Colorado Springs outside of Denver and commuting into town and it's very easy to do
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subdivides out there but it's really competitive to get the land so marketing hard out there looking on the MLS
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because sometimes deals do pop up like you talked about on our podcast and and trying to secure pieces out there
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because that's an area I know very very very well I know the demand I know people can get a well drilled get septic
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put in all that sort of thing if we decide to actually bring in modulars but there's also just money to be made just
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doing the subdivides and then for me those spec homes are also a means of doing slightly larger deals with a
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bigger spread because that's a simple system that I already know how so really I'm just trying to layer on on top of
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the you know 10 to $20,000 deals these various higher profit strategies so
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those spec homes can 60 to 70 each is pretty reasonable so starting several of those going into next year and then now
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those subdivisions could be several hundred to a million depending on how big of a parcel are able to secure so to
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be determined there because we're actively working on getting one of those under contract I think one of the main
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things about land is you have to find your own Avenue to Value ad and you can layer on the value ad like your building
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I think it's great how much are you adding just by doing a spec home on on your property because I know you're holding these rentals but what's that
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potential value you're creating just by doing that that value yeah so so the duplex should be all in let's see I
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spent 20 on the land water tap plans GC Fe and everything was 420 so 440 and
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then with Debt Service and everything it should be like 455 460 and then the contractor built and sold a couple of
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those at 580 uh so I think that's going to have I I think it's going to appraise a little
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bit lower than that so we're just waiting on the last few things to get the CO and refi get the appraisal so in my mind I'm calling it like like 550 560
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so about 100 and then on the single family specs that I'm going to do going into next year I got a couple Lots set
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up for that uh all in their cost 260 I spent 15 to 20ish on the land so just
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call it 280 with Debt Service and everything call it 295 and then we'll sell that around 375 380 so after
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realtor fees and all that 60 to 65 is in there for the single family
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builds I I I like I like creating the I think the us as landu and I think
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you're kind of taking a step further than a lot of us is we're actually creating affordable housing in your own little way so you're creating housing in
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general which is which is huge so I commend you for that I think I think
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everybody I think all the land people they kind of play their own little level of affordable housing in some way shape or form and then I I like I like the
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value ad creation of subdivision because it makes stuff that's unaffordable affordable and that's the biggest that's the biggest caveat that is yeah and
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go oh I was G to say even from uh just a pragmatic uh position I like doing the
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entry level three bed two bath 1500 foot uh Ranch because it just appeals to the
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biggest buyer pool so it's my Our Generation the Millennials you know buying their first home many of them and
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then the downsizing Boomers build or buy that so in my mind I just feel safest
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you know with these longer term plays where it takes some time and the market can change in six to eight months I feel
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I sleep well and I doing that sort of build because it's at the bottom of the market price-wise as far as new
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construction so there's almost no new construction available under 400 and so
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we'll be able to at the highest I've sold one of those at 398 at the lowest at 365 so right now they're selling
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around 375 380 so and then if it couldn't sell it's very rentable as well
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yeah you can't sell it at the price you want you got to rent it yeah that's the
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rule exactly we don't make the rules no no I wish yeah what's your opinion on
Raising Capital for Large-Scale Land Projects.)
15:34
the current state of the market have you seen any pullback or I mean you kind of mentioned your pricing pullback from the
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market Highs but have you seen anything relatively on your land sales and even on your building
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sales okay so let me kind of speak to the different parts of the country I'm
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doing business in so in the Southeast and Florida and the Carolinas that's been great for just making money for
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just simple buying and selling and I saw a Slowdown for summer but that's normal
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in Florida because so much of the population leaves and it's so hot did not see any slowdown in North Carolina
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um and to be determined we got a couple offers this week on some Florida property so it seems to be picking up
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back to normal but I'm not entirely sure was it normal Sumer slowdown or is it going to remain slower I'm not sure
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we'll see I still think if you're in the affordable parts and especially the secondary markets or tertiary markets to
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these places that have just received so much population growth and so much infrastructure growth with new
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businesses I think you'll be fine you know a lot of these especially in the Carolinas man a lot of these markets you
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can still buy a new house for $250,000 and then on the flip side of that people are moving and businesses
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are coming there and so I'm like man it's it's hard to go wrong in those sorts of areas so I have not seen any
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slowdown in in the Carolinas North Carolina especially is where I do a lot of business uh now switching to Colorado
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where I've done the builds and that's where all the rental properties are uh no change in in rentals I mean there was
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a little pullback from like the absolute peak in late 2021 2022 in Colorado
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Springs and Pablo but I mean really really marginal it's just not that you can rent every unit in 24 hours it was
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just crazy for a while so not really any pullback and rents as far as the spec builds yeah there was a big pullback in
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2023 and I had issues with my former contract where he's not a bad guy he
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just kind of fell apart and he couldn't manage the subs and he was too soft they would push him around too much and beat
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him up and so anyways definitely saw a pullback the prices came down substantially probably what that would
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be 10ish percent uh and that's mostly rebounded where it's not quite at Peak
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but it's close to Peak so I'm going to do these single family spec builds leading into next spring so it's the
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best time of year to sell them um and I I fully expect those to go well so all
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that to say other than in the Southeast I'm seeing just more normal SE right
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seasonalities back in Florida Colorado things will slow down as we get past the
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little fall Rush here um inventory is still lowish but more normal uh so I I
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think just more of a normal Market anywhere that I'm doing business what's your ratio to like land
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to other other things are you doing more land like 80% 90% yeah so I mean there's
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two buckets in my mind where the land is the way to make money and then the rentals are a way to shelter that money
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shelter that income of course legally and then I think of them almost like savings accounts that somebody else is
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filling for me for the future like my my 401k and then also of course they
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appreciate ideally over the long term so the rentals I just let all the income
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from those just go into the accounts their respective accounts I don't touch any of that that's just you know oh
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money I kind of call it uh and uh uh so the land business is all the active and
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I think of that as as everything um so what's what's the ratio like 6040
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to 7030 60 like I guess I'm not I I have 20 26 different rental units so they just
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sit in their the income sits in their respective accounts so I'm not buying rentals every month I bought two
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fourplexes this year and then this duplex that'll be built so those will be the the properties I bought and or built
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and kept this year as far as land flips should do 70ish maybe 75 this year oh
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wow it's not bad it's not bad it's lot it's a lot of volume how big is your team me and then two acquisition guys
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and then we've got a part-time cold caller starting on Monday but also do
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some deal financing that's what Mason and I do together so that kind of outsources acquisition for for some of
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these deals what do what do you mean by deal financing well tons of people that
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follow us will get land deals under contract they'll be new and they'll have no means of closing it and so they'll bring it to to us and we'll provide the
20:10
capital and then do some sort of a joint venture nice nice and I noticed there's a lot of uh I noticed that came up this
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type of strategy came up like two years ago I've seen it a lot last year and
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especially last like six to 12 months um there's been a lot of that c Capital coming into the marketplace they
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understand a little bit better and they're jumping into uh deal funding and I think it's it's a great resource
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because there's a lot of people there's a lot of wholesalers that don't have Capital there's a lot of people yeah
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well let's talk about this I'd be curious what you're seeing what you're doing because this is still a
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bottleneck there there's a deal I'm thinking about right now speaking to the the subdivides in in eastern Colorado
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where it's sitting on the market but to really do everything that would need done it would it would probably be a
21:00
couple million dollars and forget about that one there's there's tons of examples like this and so I'm working on
21:07
on raising money at more of a scale just because once you you said this too on
21:12
our show once you get to a certain scale where where you're in the millions the profit is sitting right there you just
21:18
have to be able to put the money together and structure it properly so you know what are you doing in your business to raise money at scale but
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also do so in a safe way where you don't have a balloon coming if it doesn't sell right when you
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think so all of our stuff and this this is a great question for everybody here listen thing that's a great question but
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we try not to get too heavy on the Buy price we use seller financing and long
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escos to kind of maneuver and control that flow so we've never put a million
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dollars into one project it just doesn't happen so those multi-million dollar Parcels that need that injection we're
21:57
just not ready for there and I think the you kind of hit a nail on the head a second ago is that the
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capital at that level is few and far between so you really have to build up the confidence of that
22:08
Capital to kind of outlay what the projections look like because the
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biggest thing with capital that that operate of that size is they like to make sure they're secure yeah so I've
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raised a lot of capital that want to do small stuff so the small land flips under 300,000 I have a couple seven
22:26
figures for it to keep rolling transactions but the stuff that when you
22:32
get a little bit bigger there they don't have the appetite for it yet and we're kind of opening that that door currently
22:39
to see how see how it opens up but essentially we have one lender that's open to it and all the rest like doing
22:45
small stuff so um it's more meeting the right person on that on that side that's
22:51
because essentially when you get to that level you have to meet a development family office or Development Fund that's
Staying Uncomfortable for Business Growth.)
22:57
going to back you and that's just the only you're going to find that type of capital because the banks ain't going to do it and uh one rich individual person
23:05
most likely is going to do it it's going to be some type of institution yeah and this is something we've run into where we've talked to
23:12
people that are in or represent family offices and a lot of times the minimum for them is is 10 million or five
23:20
million at the minimum and so there's kind of a gap there where if you need 1.5 there's not a lot of people doing
23:25
that which creates an opportunity absolutely you're 100% % correct there's
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it's it's like that I I equate it to that that threshold in multif family where you have all these mom Pops at
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like four to 50 units 5 to 50 units they love playing there and they'll just they're playing there at that moment because once you go over 50 it's very
23:42
institutional and you're fighting people that have they're well capitalized and have good balance sheets and all that
23:47
stuff so you really have them to fight for that transaction so they can pick up a lot of five to 50 units pretty easily
23:54
yep yep no yeah and it's it's it's more inefficient though than I think other
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real estate assets where there's there's more of an opport there's huge spreads to be had because just very few people
24:06
are providing capital or can put the capital together for their own deals in that that kind of mid tier uh so yeah
24:12
it's interesting it's it's exciting absolutely there's a wide open space for it and if somebody figures it
24:18
out they're going to be in the money for a lot of different places because there's Market there's Capital needs for
24:24
that that asset type and that asset class and that especially that amount type everywhere from Texas to Colorado
24:30
to Florida you name it there's thousands if not hundreds of thousands of
24:36
potential tracks that fit that parameter now what the ROI and return and City and
24:43
timeline and all that other stuff I mean it's depend on each M each municipality but it's going to be that that's where
24:50
the the hangup is for sure but there's a big wide open space for us I hope somebody here listening reaches out to
24:56
Danner ey about opportunity because there's there's a lot of opportunity there
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there's a lot of opportunity there and it's going to take the problem is it takes two two to two to five years to
25:07
work out so somebody along for the right going along for the right know can you can you specify you mean dealing with
25:13
cities and municipalities to do so or what were you referring to there so generally you're it depends on your
25:20
state too but generally you're going to be in like California you're GNA be doing paperwork for three years oh yeah
25:25
yeah you're gonna be doing paperwork for three years and you're going to be doing building and vertical construction or
25:32
horizontal construction for another two to three years so it's a fiveyear play sixe play whereas if you do some places
25:39
like Texas maybe Colorado maybe like Florida you might get that down to three to five years but three to years on the
25:45
minimum so you really have to and there's a lot of uncertainty during that three years yep well okay so this is
25:53
something I learned from my old friend that I told you about we're finding these places that the demand is there
25:59
but it's much easier to get these things done so like where I do these new builds in Pueblo West it takes four to six
26:06
weeks to get a permit I spend $2,000 for the engineering and then you don't even
26:12
have to be licensed to do so let me lay this out you need an engineer for the trusses but the lumber company does that
26:18
they have that in house so that's easy enough you don't need any license to do the actual house plan I could draw it so
26:25
I hire a designer and I pay him $500 for the house plan $200 for the plot plan
26:31
and then the engineer I pay to the foundation and the soils is $2,000 and it takes four to six weeks get a permit
26:37
we're on track to build this thing in somewhere between four and five months so finding places like that where
26:42
there's still demand and it's not you know Hicktown where nothing's going on uh it's the same sort of thing with
26:49
these Parcels Eastern Colorado I'm talking about a lot of the counties east of Denver east of Castle Rock and
26:55
Colorado Springs if you stay 35 Acres or bigger by right you can do a well and
27:00
you can subdivide these multi 100 Acre Parcels to 35s uh just by doing the survey right redoing the plat all the
27:08
legal descriptions recording it yourself and so you can get these things done very very quickly and then the builds are easy because you can drill well by
27:14
right and septic uh and so I've I've always tried to Target places where the
27:19
process is very easy like that and so in both of those contexts can deploy a lot
27:25
of capital and get it done much quicker uh then some of these areas you're talking about you know God forbid in
27:32
California uh so finding those failed subdivisions have been amazing where all
27:37
utilities are in place no horizontal work needs done uh and there's a lot of those around the country there's a lot
27:44
of them there's a lot of those they just ran out of money and I think there's a lot of there's a lot of fear because
27:51
people ran out of money so they're afraid they're not going to H money targets and they're afraid somebody's going to still hold in the bag which is
27:57
a lot of risk 100% I think the the play where you're
28:02
doing exempt subdivides and building I think those are 100% the better option
28:08
um but we at what price point you know and that's where if do 35 year track with a with the the house you're hitting
28:15
that half million dollar price point and there is buyers for that there definitely is but when you get to more
28:20
expensive land you're going to even with a larger track like even with stuff we deal in Texas let's say 10,000 an acre
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we're doing Z subdivide it's going to be 100,000 and you build something now
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we're in the four 500s you know we're hitting that same price point so if you if you're at a high price per acre area
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you're gonna have a problem yeah yeah you're gonna have a problem is is what it is so then you have to then you have
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to out outweigh if you go the County Route and doing uh density what's the
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timeline for that what's the timeline for roads what's the timeline for paperwork and that's what we're seeing so we're
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doing we're doing a project now in PO he and it is extensive it's been long and
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has been taxing yeah can hear in your voice yeah it's
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been taxing so um we're we're we're learning through it ourselves but we got really good terms we got really good
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funding on it and like I said we're trying to work out through the timelines but it's I don't know we'll see we'll
29:27
see how it goes but there potential 10 figures on it nine figures
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okay yeah not 10 figures I think that's a
29:38
billion no um wait six I don't know I forget my math eight
29:45
would be 10 million nine would be 100 million it it's like seven eight figures seven eight figures okay that's exciting
29:52
yeah it's like that eight to 11 range it could go up to so excellent I don't know
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yeah you know it's it's very nerve-wracking because like I said you have that uncertainty we have experience
30:06
in big land but not sub entitlement land so it's just breaking barriers and
30:11
breaking ceilings and all the stuff that come with that and it's just it's ner it's a little
30:17
nerve-wracking definitely definitely and and that's I think something that's good to highlight I've been
30:23
uncomfortable since I started my business pretty much non-stop all the time like if you're growing a business
30:29
you're uncomfortable almost all the time I'm sure I'm sure you can relate to that absolutely I think when you get
30:35
comfortable and complacent you you get left behind and not that you have to be comfortable complacent all the time I
30:41
think if if you're grow your growing stages I think you got to welcome it and take it on and head on um because even
30:48
stepping out of college or working a W2 for somebody else stepping into
30:54
entrepreneurship you're got to get uncomfortable breaking barriers in your own business quitting your job getting uncomfortable
31:00
so you got to be you got to be careful getting uncomfortable and it's just the bottom line you're not going to last very long in business if you're not
31:06
getting uncomfortable really quick yeah yeah agreed what is a quote that is
31:12
yours or somebody else's that you resonate with oh uh mistakes love a rush decision
31:19
Alex Heros always says that and that has stuck with me he it was a podcast early
31:25
last year about his money rule rules and that one there's so many times I tend to
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be the type that makes decisions too quickly naturally and jumps into things too quickly and so that one I think
31:36
about a lot mistakes love a rush decision I think there's there's definitely a balance to that I think
31:44
sometimes especially in this business in Real Estate General you have to make quick decisions you have to or else you miss opportunity sure so I think I think
31:52
I think it it that that that that scale might differ for different people in different types of businesses
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because we we have to make quick decisions that's the bottom line we have to make quick decisions We're not gonna
32:05
do very much business if we don't make quick decisions and some are a little bit more methodical and you kind of have the opportunity to to think about it
32:12
more but sometimes it comes up you're like you got to jump on that we have to right
32:18
now very true work people find you online I have your website which is danh
32:26
hab. you have any other places you can send people yeah just anywhere that any
32:31
of the socials Dan host feel free to reach out anything land and happy to talk to you absolutely for everybody
32:38
here thanks for tuning in we appreciate your time thanks Dan for coming on I think we had a great conversation I hope you all like share subscribe share with
32:45
a friend we'll see you next time thanks guys
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